PTG Wichita Chapter

The Voicing Tool

The Future of the Piano

We have work if people buy, play, and maintain pianos.

Everyone should learn to play the piano or some instrument

“Pianos are lovable. You wouldn’t want your pet horse to be thrown out into the glue factory.”

For More Pianos, Last Note Is Thud in the Dump nytimes.com
A century after the peak of American piano manufacturing, the dump is increasingly becoming the destination for instruments that are unwanted or too expensive to maintain.

Thomson Lawrie • Thanks for posting this Benjamin. It pretty well sums up what we all know. It's really well written. None of these older pianos will be worth much until the junk is culled from the herd. The truth is, I'd much rather be called to go tune a new Chinese made upright than 90% of the 100 year old uprights out there. Most of them have dozens of little niggling repairs that turn tuning calls into half a day of work and a call home to say your going to be late again today and that's not even talking about the ones with real structural problems. The way I look at it is that I may be saving the customer the price of a new piano by keeping the old one ticking but if they have the money for a new one then it's probably time to take grandma's piano off of life support

David Reid • Ouch!!!!! This grabs you in the guts, but there again, when I saw the spinets being trashed I thought, "That's something I've been tempted to do many times"!!!

Michael Magness • I spent last Thursday afternoon replacing a couple of hammers, shimming the balance rail to achieve some aftertouch & tuning (to A-435) a Harrison upright built in 1903 that hadn't been tuned for many, many years. I did so for for the newly blind 95 YO father of an old customer so that he may have the joy of music in his home (yes he is still in his home) as he lives his final years, months or weeks! Did I feel a pride of professional accomplishment for this work? Very little, did I feel I had made a difference in someone's life? Very much so, who am I to judge what should or shouldn't be saved?
I give my dollars & cents opinion but the heart & sentiment attached to these instruments is, to some, much more precious than money. The profuse thanks from his daughters/from him & listening to his stories were as precious as the check I received.

Keith Akins • If you feel that way about working on old uprights, you probably aren't charging enough. For technical work -- which doesn't get done because some "tooners" don't know how or others don't want to do the work -- you should be charging 1.5 to 2 times your tuning rate.

When you are paying yourself enough, you story will be told differently:

"I was able to do a half days work on an old upright and made more than if I had been tuning pianos. I like it when that happens".

If people don't want to pay the cost of keeping the old beast going, that is their choice.

Thomson Lawrie • Keith, That's probably really good advice. I just find it hard to charge for the small stuff that doesn't take a lot of time, a few sticking keys, a squeaking pedal, a double striking hammer... the problem is when you add the all up it can turn into a lot of time. It's a bit like death by paper cuts. I think the issue for me is that I have to tell them before I start that there are likely to be some extra charges for non tuning issues. The thing that prevents me from charging for all the little stuff is it often takes more time to explain a small repair than it takes to do it. Thanks Keith, I'll give it some thought.

Keith Burchnall • I have to say, I can knock off pretty good coin for a long day of screw tightening, cleaning, maybe hammer sculpting, total regulation, and tuning(s), replace the hammer-rail felt and so on. Even if it's like putting make-up on a cadaver, resurrecting some of the old piano's qualities can be a magical thing. Many's the time I get captivated playing after working on it's innards all day. Really, if the pins hold, the hammers aren't too bad and the bass strings have some edge, some T.L.C. can go a long way, in many cases, and Grandma's old piano has it's day again.

It's quite humorous (or bang your head against the wall), what some people play. I had a doctor once whose piano was a birdcage, and the piano was in regular use. A47 was a major sixth flat, Middle C! The lowest octave was so flabby it was likely only 4 or 5 c.p.s. I got the thing up a tone and a half, and the bass was still spaghetti.
Seemingly, the boy taking lessons noticed nothing amiss.

It occurred to me, you could make some interesting sculptures out of pianos.

Emmery Neuperger • I take these old pianos as they come and don't mind ressurecting the marginal ones if if the customer really wants it done. Replacing all the hammers, iron wound and rusted worn strings, many loose pins, trampled actions, and structural damage seem to be the common trait on the ones that need to go.

Still, its unsettling to spend a good deal of time on one which the customer wants saved, and then the next week you run into one twice as good condition which the customer is intent on giving away. I mention this option to the customer and occasionally find when I return the next time, a piano that at least has a faint heart beat in it sitting there.

Thompson is correct, a lot of the train wrecks should get culled from the herd. At some point, the remaining few will increase in value much like old automobiles have. We are not at that point if there are thousands of these pianos collecting dust sitting in the corners of peoples homes and basements.

William Monroe • ... just a thought, When I schedule out tunings, it is just that. A first service call is an hour and a half - time enough for a tuning/pitch correction and a very minor fix or two. That is about it. If the piano needs more work, we schedule a return trip. If the client doesn't want to pay for it, that's fine, but I won't do it for free. It keeps me on schedule all the time.

As far as working on old uprights in general, my belief is that education is the key. If we educate our clients as to what they have, what they could have and how much it costs to get there, we empower them to make the right decision for themselves. We don't know their lives, we know pianos, and we shouldn't be in the business of telling someone what's right for their situation. That doesn't mean we don't educate them about the possibilities, though.

We absolutely should quote them reasonable rates for fixing their piano - anything less is unfair to us and our families. We don't need to be apologetic about our need to make a living. We can also tell our clients what various new or newer used instruments would cost them, and what end results, both long and short-term, can be expected with whichever approach they might choose. After that, it's up to the client to make the appropriate choice for their situation; we certainly can participate, but I feel that my job is as a guide, an educator, not as the decision maker.

David Estey • I saw that video just the other day. I also read the comments below, and boy do I have a number of opinions on the whole deal. Did you read the comments following the article? You all should. I'm going to be making a new series of "sales tips for tuners" with it. (you can receive your free newsletter, "Fine Tuning Your Salesmanship" (a weekly e mail designed specifically for piano tuners, free of charge here: http://coolstuffformusicians.com/fine-tuning-your-salesmanship/
Our trade needs this so bad it hurts. WE are part of the problem.

1. "it broke my heart" was the general theme of th public. The "last note" of thud in the dump BEGINS with a lack of importance of the piano in the minds of the customer, hence total neglect of the piano.

1. Cheep, cheep, cheep, cheep.....sounds like a hundreds of tweetie birds singing out of harmony. This sound would be most of our customers. Do it "cheep" .... And far too many of us do it that way. Why? Because we lack skills needed to teach the customer just how important the piano is, and THE CUSTOMER makes the sale. We also, on the whole, have a very immature understanding about what to charge for our setvices, and when to tell the customers to either get something better or restore what they have. How do we know what to charge? If you would like to see a formula, go here http://coolstuffformusicians.com/bottom-line-pricing-grid/

1. In 1920, grandma paid $400 for the upright, when the average salary was $1236.00 per year, which translates into $10,000+ in today's dollars. Was it our beloved Larry Fine who compared a $3000 new Chinese piano with these instruments? (excuse me, I have to go pweuk). People complain about our economy and the lack of manufacturing in this country, then shop at Wallmart. (save money. Live better???... How's that working out for our economy these days? ) people demand "cheep", and are unaware of what " cheep" really costs.

My point... Our livelihood, our careers depend on our collective ability to educate people on the vast benefits of music to the individual, the family, the community, the country and the world. Sometimes this cause is best served by a Chinese piano, or by dumping Betsy Ross, but rarely by giving in to the "cheep" chorus, which is why many of these incredible instruments end up in the graveyard rather than resurrected

(Stepping off the soap box.... Breathing in and out to lower the blood pressure)

David Estey • I include minor repair in my flat rate. My flat rate, according to the bottom line pricing grid above should be $190.(it is not $190) It should have been $160 in 2003. Call Sears to fix your dryer. Then compare the skill level of dryer repair to the art you perform. Then ponder the variance.

In a recent discussion with a local piano tech, he said " the market won't pay that". True.. Because WE ARE the market, and WE are out of touch (for the most part) with reality. This is a horrible dis-service to our next generation of tuners who need to make a living in today's world. Shame on us old guize.

Roger Dayton. In the player piano restoration field, I am forced to do whatever repairs and replacements are necessary to make the piano a great instrument. Lots of the unfortunate players I get
to see have only had a lick and a promise 25 to 30 years ago(if they were lucky) and now
need everything. David Estey had it right about the comparable values then versus
today's prices on oriental pianos and real wood is very much preferable to chip board. Even mid-priced player instruments back then can be brought back to full potential, but
it takes real salesmanship to get that value across to the client and most can't or won't
put out the effort to sell the job at a profitable $value.

David Estey • I have a player in the shop (I also restore players) with a decal under the lid.. "Price $750". The oak player upright, not a remarkable name was built in 1923. That piano today would be in the$20,000 range, and MILLIONS bought them.
Pianos and music held a much higher value back then, and people refinanced their homes to get one. Now people place so little value on it, pianos are barely serviced..and when they are serviced, the "cheeping" begins. What's wrong with this picture?

Roy Howard • My retirement pay covers living expenses, so I use my piano income to fund my pet project, teaching others to take over this job. Every old piano with lots of problems is a classroom full of opportunity. Most of my students are in Ecuador, so pianos that I fix in Kansas end up in videos for them. Folks donate pianos, I donate my time to fix them, and anyone who buys a piano gets a fantastic value for their dollar, as they did not pay for all those hours of repair, and it will work well for years to come with continuing service. They can afford to pay professional rates for service if the big problems are addressed.

The problem in Ecuador (and all of Latin America) is that most pianos need much more work than what the owner can pay. I think that such pianos (at least those used by the music teachers and musicians) should be declared national treasures so that donations to the course could cover expenses of restoring or at least reconditioning them as course field experience; and the experience helps prepare the next generation of technicians.

Old tuners + old pianos x (young people with low budgets and big ambitions) = a new generation of piano players and technicians.